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great spot to eat and see the city below at night http://funicular.ge

@ace01 @jedijames @alexanderhay @kl5340dc

@artem

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@ahawkins

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great quick video on Georgia: https://youtu.be/YWXvDxovfM4

A longer and more detailed video: https://youtu.be/NLXWC4enm_I

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ahahahahaha it is through GPI Holding in Georgia. 150 usd a year: http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/339123-rand-paul-insurance-should-be-available-for-1-a-day

thats less than 50 cents a day. The people in the US made their bed. Now they are laying in it.

:slightly_smiling_face: Creative Georgians

^wine most likely

Health insurance for those of you that are residents: https://www.gpih.ge/gpih/en/individuals/

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Simon, It seems to me that there is a contradiction in the article below : https://www.freedomsurfer.com/georgia/ "The residency program that is of interest to those living the location independent lifestyle is the ?Work residence permit?. It is issued to those who are relocating to manage a LOCAL company." (...) "It is important to note that before getting started with the residency application, you will need to register a LOCAL company and open a bank account for that company." (...) "In most cases, this simply means registering a resident company ABROAD, keeping the proceeds from that company abroad and not engaging in any business in Georgia. That said, there are a few situations where registering your business in Georgia could make sense." Regards

Georgia is flexible. You find out that there are more options if you fly here. It is not 100% clear cut.

if all the good in's and outs of Georgia were posted online it may turn into the cesspool southeast asia has become with digital nomads.

daily life works differently here. You dont see hoards of digital nomads at cafe's. The country is largly economically conservative with liberterian social tendencies with a number of unwritten rules

There are quite a few guys from fs here, but as you can see people are quietly doing business and making money

even the lawyers here will not tel you all the details over email. They are tired of people talking, so they will take you seriously if you book an appointment here and show up in person.

Does that answer your questions @pascal

Agalt, Do you mean that it is possible to become a resident of Georgia by having a company abroad and no company in Georgia?

there are different options including investment, marrige, and many others

im sitting in Tbilisi right now, and things are very different on the ground than what you read online in a good way. Many of the people here do not want it to become spoiled with the DN community like other parts of the world, so the golden nuggets are given out after you show up in person and talk to the right people.

send me a PM: we can discuss options if you wish

last time we spoke you seemed very negative about it, so maybe it is not somewhere you want to go.

I'm afraid of war

listen: i've had 5 guns pointed at me and, been shot at once. Georgia is not dangerous currently, and most likely will not be if they continue doing the right things as they currently are

if you spend your life afraid of dying you can't live to the fullest (that is a philisophical arguement though)

you need a thicker skin here for sure. If you get scared easily this country is not for you or others who have difficulty with chaos.

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I'm not afraid at all by georgians. I am afraid of the missiles that are installed in the Baltic countries, in Poland, in Romania, in Bulgaria, soon in Poti, ... by NATO and those installed by the Russians to defend themselves. The first two world wars existed and they were dramatic in Europe.

In addition, Georgia is close to Syria and Turkey, which are at war. I know the real reasons for this war (the monetary, financial, economic and global banking collapse). It will get worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket So I know how it will end.

https://goldswitzerland.com/will-gold-reach-2-6-million-or-just-150000/ https://goldswitzerland.com/42-of-all-the-gold-in-the-world-buys-5-companies-only/ https://goldswitzerland.com/the-more-central-banks-print-the-more-gold-silk-road-countries-will-buy/

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He is Freelancer in Georgia : http://www.expat.com/forum/profile.php?id=1888389

@agalt uploaded a file: https://freedomsurfer.slack.com/files/agalt/F65541Y3A/img_20170708_153723.jpg

Good food on the new pedestrian Street

Iveria Cafe near the Radisson blu hotel. Those of you who have been here know this view. It is paired well with a glass of Georgian wine with 6,000 years heritage

@pascal why don't you start a company and have another company pay your company for whatever you are freelancing. It will save you on taxes and protect your personal liability.

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Going here today https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/08/21/why-is-china-building-a-new-city-in-georgia/#420c6ce34f15

There is a mistake here : 6. Document certifying employment and entrepreneurial activity (labor contract or any other document certifying the employment). ?if this document does not evidence the legal income of a foreigner, the income may be the amount on the bank account of a foreigner provided it is not less than twice the amount of average consumer living subsistence applicable in Georgia per month over the duration of residence permit? 7. Local personal bank account with a deposit of at least 3000 USD Source https://www.freedomsurfer.com/georgia/ If you don't have a document indicating your income, you put 3000 euros or dollars on a georgian bank account and that's all.

Source http://sda.gov.ge/?page_id=7445&lang=en

2 500 USD in 2017 according to this company : http://www.companyformationgeorgia.com/

( for one YEAR )

@pascal you wont find the information you want about georgia online. This is the way the country works. If You want to do something here, hop on a plane or quit talking about it. sit down with a good lawyer, pay them, ask questions.

Eastern Europe and the Caucuses work differently. If you are afraid there will be a war here or you are afraid, please don't come.

Agalt, The war will not target only the base that NATO will create in Poti (Georgia). All countries will have to choose their camp so all will be affected. Not now according to this information http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/3/russia-tests-hypersonic-missile-which-it-says-make/ and in 2024 according to some christian prophecies. I just wanted to fix an error about georgian residency. I have neither the means, nor need a Georgian tax lawyer for now.

wish you the best with making that money for whatever projects you wish to pursue. I don't like religion or politics. You can find whatever information on the internet to support prophicies or whatever. I live here. It is nice. Other people from FS live here. We are making $ while you complain and worry. I won't even go into what people say France will look like in 20 years... Find somewhere that you can live where you are happy. Best of luck

France is controlled by Freemasonry. It will collapse completely. France deserves it. The most widespread religion is yours: the religion of secularism and of the human.

free masons are good people. Look at the charity work they have done. Look at what they have given back to society. Don't burn yourself up with conspiricy theories. Anger like this is not good for you.

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Kaheti, Georgia

Batumi bound

PERSONAL TAXATION Basis ? Resident and nonresident individuals are taxable only on Georgia-source income. Dividends and interest received by resident individuals from resident companies are excluded from the taxable base. (...) Rates - Employment income ( including benefits ) and the income of individual entrepreneurs is taxed at 20 %. (...) Dividends and interest are taxed at 5 %. Source https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-georgiahighlights-2017.pdf ( There is a contradiction in this text )

In Georgia, who pays 5% tax on dividends from Georgian source? People who are not residents of Georgia?

You're probably right Brian. In this case, it is those who do not reside in Georgia and who receive dividends from a Georgian company that pay 5% dividend tax. Thank you Brian.

Only property tax is a local tax, all other taxes are national. Personal income tax for interest, dividend and royalty is 5%. Georgia doesn?t have payroll, social security, capital gains, wealth or inheritance tax. Furthermore, the Tax Code of Georgia gives an opportunity to the companies to use accelerated depreciation on capital assets (including full deduction during first year) and loss carry forward for corporate profit tax purposes (10 years). Source : https://investingeorgia.org/en/georgia/taxation

Brian, I just asked this question to an experienced tax lawyer. As soon as I receive his reply, I transmit it to you here.:slightly_smiling_face:

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I'm really interested in knowing more about obtaining residency in Georgia.

Is https://www.freedomsurfer.com/georgia/ still accurate?

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Are the banks in Georgia suitable for sending and receiving international wire transfers?

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Any people here who live in Georgia?

There used to be a couple. Dunno where they're are now

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yes

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Hello all! Thinking of taking the wife to Batumi in June for a weekend. Any recommendation like things to do/see, restaurants, hotel/flat... ?

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Does anyone have any experience banking at Bank of Georgia?

@ledrewy it's my bank for day to day operations.

@ivo can you send and receive USD wires online with it?

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New changes coming to residency requirements: http://agenda.ge/en/news/2018/2330?fbclid=IwAR2N1U3sbbIf2lSUlkcbV3AuEOgQ-pk52GcBrveFlF3lh8b0hVMKDbPV8WU

Becoming harder!

Dear Georgian residents. A friend of mine has just arrived by Bicycle from Thailand and will be staying in Tbilisi for 4 months before continuing on.

She might appreciate meeting some other expats.

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Does anyone have a good recommendation for a virtual number to receive SMS outside of Georgia?

@ledrewy I use plivo

Plivo using the nomad gate tutorial for virtual SMS

Thanks, @johncitizen

So I've used that tutorial to set up a US number several months ago. There were a few times though when I received SMSs from Facebook giving me a OTP, however I don't use SMS for OTPs and Facebook doesn't use that number. Makes me think that the US numbers at least may be recycled and not unique. Hasn't happened lately though. Have you experienced that @johncitizen?

Not at all, I?ve got some US numbers, UK and Georgia. All work fine. Could be your specific number

Apparently TBC Bank allows number beginning with a 5 only; so a local mobile number

True, I did get a local sim to activate both the account and my PayPal then changed it.

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Did these changes ever pass? It doesn?t look like it as yet.

@johncitizen No, they aren?t in effect yet. Will probably in some form or another be passed this year though.

I wonder though even if I did make it on the 35k short term, would they honour PR issue at the end of 6 years if I don?t show up too often in Georgia

Some government sites read like I?d have to live there for 6 months leading up to the application.

It doesn?t matter how much you show up as long as it?s once every year to renew that residency. But they will most likely abandon the 35k USD and raise that limit. Depending on where they take, your purchase may not qualify for the investment residency anymore.

That would be frustrating, realising to renew you had to invest further capital one year to the next.

Exactly - If you want to acquire residency through purchase of property my advice is to stay in wait and see mode or to purchase something >100k USD. I?ll keep this up to date if there is any changes in the ruling.

And if it?s just about the residency permit - there are also much easier ways to get a hold of that.

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Hi! Does anybody here knows, if you are a tax-resident in Georgia, will they tax you for: 1. A freelance job you did over internet for a non-Georgian company while physically staying in Georgia? In other words, do they treat it as a locally sourced income or as a foreign income? 2. Selling cryptocurrencies for fiat money? 3. Do they ask some papers proving no debts to tax office upon leaving the country for people who stayed more than half-year?

Have anyone here successfully opened a bank account in Tbilisi, Georgia (Bank of Georgia and Liberty Bank)? Which information about customer do they need? Is it possible to simply open an account on first day of vacation and collect the Visa cards after one week later? Any insights into the process would be welcome.

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The new residency requirements are out. For investment residency you need to own an apartment >100k USD or invest 300k USD into the Georgian economy. For working residency, you need to found a LLC and proof at least 18k USD in revenue or apply for the freelance residency, which requires proof of assets of 4000 USD and sufficient expertise in your field of work.

:|

At least $100K is a really really nice apartment.

$50k was a single bed shoebox in Tbilisi for a decent area.

That sounds interesting!

I think the new regulations are very reasonable and mainly adressed at reducing the abuse of the whole system. The freelance visa requirements are still very easy to fulfil.

@fish

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You might want to write your findings in Georgia here :-)

I think it?s pretty cool you can add the Bank of Georgia debit card to ApplePay Wallet from the Bank of Georgia app. No pin nor phone call required to activate.

Moving to Georgia, Tbilisi on 1 November with my family. Not sure for how long, but hopefully for a year at least.

what are you going to do for school?

@mikeseo My kid now is < 2 years, so school is not an issue for now (my wife is a stay at home mom). But I do consider kindergarden after he will turn 2 years old ? my wife is bored to death, she really wants to work.

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Hi guys, I arrived in Tbilisi one week ago and I've planned to stay longer. If some of you pass by, let's meet ! Have a good day !

I?m planning to potentially visit Georgia the end of January to early February via Tbilisi.

If you do hit me up @johncitizen ! I think I'll still there. Have a good day !

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Hey @romaindepotter, I just arrived in Tbilisi and I will be there for a week. I?m going to Touch Digital Submit tomorrow and Thursday, but I?m available any time after that for a meetup!

I'll be in Tbilisi around early Feb too.

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Yes, you can open an account with TBS bank on the first day of vacation and get a MasterCard card same day as well. I was in Batumi for a week in August and that?s exactly what I did.

I also went with TBS, very easy process! Getting my card GEL/EUR/USD MasterCard tomorrow.

Yep, Georgia banking seems to be very easy. I was considering moving to Georgia, thanks for low taxes but my partner did not like it unfortunately, so we end up in Spain, lol

Staying for couple of days in Tbilisi already. Really freezing after chiang mai :smile:

Hey @skat I'm here, and I was also from CM one month ago when I arrived haha. If you wanna hangout and taste some georgian food let me know !

@romaindepotter totally up for it, but i?m with my family (kid and wife). I?ve been meaning to cheack out Fabrika today (or Zoo), but if you have any other interesting plans ? we might be up for it as well.

We don?t have much of an agenda, just hanging out :smile:

I'm working at Fabrika, tell me once you're there we can take a coffee or whatever

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If anyone is in Tbilisi, come over for a Coffee Break -> https://www.facebook.com/events/445912192730943/?event_time_id=445912206064275

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Hey guys, I'll be in Tbilisi for the next 10 days or so if someone wants to grab a coffee / beer / wine :slightly_smiling_face:

Has anyone incorporated in Georgia? FIZ?

@burrup.lambert I have 3 companies there, albeit none of them in the FIZ. But I know the guys from TFZ and Hualing Freezone. What do you need to know?

Do any have a Financial Service License? I'm looking to find out more information about it. The costs, time frame, whether I require a license at all etc.

Forget it. It?s all bogus what you read online.

The license only exists on paper

The only financial license you may acquire is the PSP license. But the IFC license does not work.

There will be another Coffee Break meetup tomorrow at Moxy https://www.facebook.com/events/445912192730943/?event_time_id=445912196064276 If you have couple of free hours tomorrow ? I?d love to meet you there.

TBC is closing accounts of software and VZ companies - be careful. If you too encounter this issue please let me know and lets think it through together.

Even for companies owned by residents?

any additional info on this? what do you refer as ?software??

After spending a decent amount of time in laying down business infrastructure (LLC company with a VZ permit) I was waiting for the first payment to clear. TBC inquired for info including company description and an invoice/contract for that payment which was not unexpected since its a new company+first inbound payment+over10k USD. However, a day after the payment clears comes a message saying that I have around two weeks to clear the account as they will be closing all my linked company accounts (two other shelved LLCs) at their discretion. Neither calling nor writing TBC gave me any answers, nobody to talk to. Next step was talking to my accountant to see what can be done, this is when he told me I'm not the only on this boat, more of his clients are facing the same issue and the common ground is that we're all software companies. Can't tell if being a resident helps, nor I can't narrow down "software" other than adding "development" by its side.

The problem is that the Virtual Zone status is starting to create a lot of headache for the administration and banks. The system has been excessively abused by many, and as a result has caused massive problems for the banks. And, in typical Georgian fashion, that means from now on, every client providing IT Services is a potential criminal. If your company only has business abroad and generates no expenses in Georgia, the banks seem to freak out and close your account. Of course, that can?t be the long-term solution and its damaging Georgia?s reputation as place of doing business. For now, there?s nothing you to do about it other than using a Fintech and let things rest a bit.

FYI - my companies incl VZ were all left untouched, but I also have a lot of local expenses with them and pay taxes.

Even if one could generate local expanses and portray the vision that the company is on its way to be running a nice local office, excessive actions like this by the baking system doesn't give a long term vibe of safty.

Yeah, it?s a bit alarming that @fish was basically just starting out his business in Georgia. I?ve been planning to incorporate my IT consultancy business in Georgia as well next week. Let?s see how that will work out?

@fish fully agree with you. Unfortunately the current Georgian administration can?t handle the excessive liberalization that the previous government has enacted and that made the country known across the world.

@skat I would strongly advise you to stay put for now. I?ll plan to have some meetings with bank admins when I am back in Georgia next week and try to figure out what they?re on about.

@ivo thanks for advice. I can hold on with registration? would be interesting to hear your take on this situation (after you get all the info).

You can register your company and get the license. What I would wait with is the bank account application

@ivo I'll be waiting for an update too :kissing_smiling_eyes:

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Does anybody know about taxation (individual, tax resident in Georgia) for income received from online brokers like Interactive Brokers? I think about trying it but first want to clarify the taxation question.

@nnmatveev, all dividends and capital gains received from trading assets on exchanges outside Georgia are tax free and non-reportable.

Or in short: anything you can trade on online brokers is not taxed

@ivo Thank you! It sounds very good :slightly_smiling_face: Do you know the reference to the tax code where this is explicitly specified?

I don?t. But being a professional trader living in Georgia I know this is the case. If you want the comprehensive answer I suggest calling Revenue Services. They have a very good english hotline

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@ivo Could you advice online brokers (except Interactive Brokers) that work with Georgian tax residents?

@nnmatveev You can use pretty much any broker. If you want a local Georgian one I recommend Galt & Taggart. They are actually an amazing broker, white label of Saxo Bank with some really nice exclusive offers on HY bond offerings in central asia. Let me know and I can make an intro.

any updates @ivo? :slightly_smiling_face:

we?re all eager to get more details on this :slightly_smiling_face:

I?m meeting some BoG folks on Tuesday and raise the point with them there.

On another note - the ministry of justice has removed the application form for the virtual zone of their website. Maybe it?s a temporary thing, but maybe this is showing that they are about to change the lax rules on it..

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@skat @fish Met with some high rank BoG folks two days ago. The closure comes due to immense pressure from intermediary banks. Basically they refuse to process transactions for companies that do not have any ties to the local market, in particular software companies that could exploit the tax benifits. The main reason is Georgia?s non-compliance with CRS any customer from here is high-risk and since they have no way to track the origins of money they force the banks to close the accounts. If you have a Georgian entity, particular a VZ entity, keep a low profile and let your business appear as local as possible. For now, your int clients only through Fintechs and use the local bank account only for local expenses and to pay taxes.

@ivo Thanks for the info. Georgia didn't sign that OECD agreement and this is part of the aftermath. More companies start to face those issues, afaik, GEL transactions are fine but receiving an international transaction in foreign currency triggers a line of questioning from the banks.

@ivo thanks for info!

Hi Nick, thanks for the information. quick question: do i have to be a Georgia resident to avail of this or is it ok for anyone as long as you have a bank account there? thanks

@ivo Thanks for the information in regards to the tax free and non-reportable capital gains. quick question: do i have to be a Georgia resident to avail of this or is it ok for anyone as long as you have a bank account there? thanks

@donatobianchi You always pay taxes where you are tax resident

@ivo Do you know of any Countries i can move to that will allow me not to pay tax on personal gains? for instance i know near Dubai has 0 tax... anywhere close to Europe that you may know of?

There are many ways of what you call personal gains: income from salary, capital gains, dividends, royalties. Different countries tax them differently. Yes, Dubai taxes none of them. Some other countries only tax some of them. In Georgia, you only pay taxes on income earned inside the country. With the correct structure, you can pay (almost) no taxes. I?d say, all these forced taxes like VAT aside, I pay less then 5% in income tax here, which personally doesn?t bother me at all.

There is a Coffee Break meetup tomorrow for people that work remotely. https://www.facebook.com/events/445912192730943/

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Looking for an example of how to fill a w8ben-e form for a Georgian software dev company to exempt it from withholding tax, has anybody done it before?

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hey. is there any way of obtaining Georgian tax residency without staying there 183 days? Is there anyone who can help me with that? Thanks!

@d.mikocionis why do you want to not stay there for 183 days?

@d.mikocionis There is a way, I'm not sure of the specific details though. "An individual also may become a tax resident of Georgia if she/he has high net worth, as defined under the securities market law."

@d.mikocionis Yes, there is a way. You need to obtain a work or investment residency first though. Once you have that, then provide proof of either having income of at least 70k USD over the last 3 consecutive years or 1.2m in assets.

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could prove it for 2 years only

any way could go around it? :smile:

or show income of 200k this year or something like that?

This program is directed at high net worth individuals. If you do not fall in either o the categories as defined by the Georgian tax code you cannot benefit from that regulation.

But I tell you what: If you have 200k income this year it looks like your on your best way to achieve these targets. If you wanna to immediately improve your tax situation, then Georgia is definitely not the worst place to spend 183 days (or even a few less if reasonably arranged). And if you are unable to move because of work reasons, then this tax certificate most likely wont help you much anyways.

Yeah, I know... just got my Mexican visa, which is domicile based

so would love to stay here and get tax residency in Georgia. Will try to figure out if it's possible to do it without relocating at least this year

do you have anyone who does these things? @ivo?

@d.mikocionis yeah - I can do it. But you ought to know that you will have to spend at least a couple of days in Georgia and either need an active business that generates some taxes or own a property in the country. If you want you can pm me and see if it makes sense to go for that option.

I am not an expert in Mexican tax law, but what I can already tell you is that there is no DTT between Mexico and Georgia, so must likely even if you would acquire Georgian tax residency it would be difficult to claim benefits of them while living in Mexico.

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gamarjoba everyone! hi @ivo we once met, hope everything is okay.

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@demmbox Hi, I?m fine. Looking ahead to finally have these bloody restrictions lifted. I do not recall our meeting. Are you in Tbilisi?

Batumi :smiley:

Alright - did we meet there?

nah. we met in Tbilisi I think 2 years ago. It was Juny-July 2018. let?s move to private

Yes, you can register as a sole trader. I'm looking at this too and can share some video links if you are still looking at it. For tax residency you need to take the HNWI route and show earnings over $15k USD/year

Is Gerorgia opening it's borders yet?? I'm thinking to head over and set up as a sole trader there in a couple of weeks

July 1st you will be able to fly into Georgia. Its unclear though, whether you will need.a medical certificate or not

Damn, I was hoping sooner, thanks @ivo. Are you there atm?

Yes

Hi everyone, I will move to Georgia permanently after everything calms down with the current situation, but I have a few questions. Maybe some of you can answer them or point to a reliable accountant / lawyer who knows the answers. I am a programmer and I will work remotely for clients in the EU. I was wondering if I should establish a LLC company with Virtual Zone status or an Individual Entrepreneur with a small business status (I will not exceed the equivalent of 500,000 GEL per year). I'll put questions to this thread

1. If I register as a LLC with Virtual Zone and will pay myself profits only via dividends, will it be difficult for me to obtain temporary residence in Georgia? 2. Is it possible to register as an Individual Entrepreneur and obtain Small Business status with my type of business? 3. If I will register as an Individual Entrepreneur and provide my services to some EU company (so B2B transaction), should I invoice with 18% VAT or without VAT, but with reverse-charge? (When I managed UK LTD company it was easy, as I always had to invoice with reverse-charge, but with Georgian entity I can't find that information anywhere) 4. In a B2C transaction should I use Georgian 18% VAT or the VAT rate in the recipient country? 5. Can I operate only with Transferwise / Paysera account or do I have to open bank account in some Georgia bank for taxing purposes etc.? 6. If I register as a LLC, my business address may be my home address or should I use a separate virtual office address? 7. If I will get Virtual Zone as a LLC and my yearly turnover will be over 100.000 GEL, do I still have to register as a VAT payer, even if my company will have 0% VAT rate? 8. Do you know an accounting company that is reliable but will not rip me off? (I will invoice 1-5 invoices per month)

Additionally, can you recommend anyone reliable, who can help with the whole process of registration and explain all duties regarding paying taxes etc.? I've found some companies, but it's hard to determine for me, if they are trustworthy or not. If someone make it clear for me, I will be really grateful :slightly_smiling_face:

*Individual Entrepreneur with a small business status* You have similar situation as me. Self-employed with a small business status is easier simpler. I heard that companies under Virtual Zone status have troubles with banking. answering your specific questions: 1. no idea. 2. yes. being a programmer is fine 3. I am getting paid without any applied VAT 4. You only have to apply Georgian VAT for customers in Georgia. Usually it?s VAT of customer?s country. 5. Better to open a local bank since you are going to live here. I like BOG it offers 4 currencies. USD, EUR, GBP, GEL 8. I can recommend you my accountant in Batumi if you decide to move here. They charge me 200 GEL per month (that is not cheap but they are good)

@ivo can help if you decide to stay in Tbilisi

Being a self-employed with a small business status you pay 1% income tax under 500,000 GEL per year and I think 3% if more.. I am not sure

regarding your VAT questions: if you invoice an EU business - no VAT if you invoice EU customer - VAT of customer?s country

1. If I register as a LLC with Virtual Zone and will pay myself profits only via dividends, will it be difficult for me to obtain temporary residence in Georgia? Yes, its possible 2. Is it possible to register as an Individual Entrepreneur and obtain Small Business status with my type of business?' No problem 3. If I will register as an Individual Entrepreneur and provide my services to some EU company (so B2B transaction), should I invoice with 18% VAT or without VAT, but with reverse-charge? (When I managed UK LTD company it was easy, as I always had to invoice with reverse-charge, but with Georgian entity I can?t find that information anywhere) For now you can invoice without VAT. But Georgia is planning on harmonising EU VAT rules next year. Still unclear what this means, but most likely reverse charge will apply. 4. In a B2C transaction should I use Georgian 18% VAT or the VAT rate in the recipient country? That depends on the place of delivery of your services. Generally speaking, recipient country. 5. Can I operate only with Transferwise / Paysera account or do I have to open bank account in some Georgia bank for taxing purposes etc.? You can register and operate solely on Transferwise. You need a Georgian bank account to pay taxes but any third party can pay taxes for you. My company provides accounting and payroll services and can deal with your tax payments as well. 6. If I register as a LLC, my business address may be my home address or should I use a separate virtual office address? You can use any address, provided the owner grants you permission. If you want, we can set up the business and you can use our address for that purpose. 7. If I will get Virtual Zone as a LLC and my yearly turnover will be over 100.000 GEL, do I still have to register as a VAT payer, even if my company will have 0% VAT rate? Yes, you do and it is even advisable to do that although you have less than 100k turnover - simply because it grants you the right to recover VAT. 8. Do you know an accounting company that is reliable but will not rip me off? (I will invoice 1-5 invoices per month) Accounting in Georgia is relatively expensive and you should expect to pay at least 150 GEL p.m. for reporting. If you are interested we can get you a quote.

if you ask me and you are working as a sole developer and do not have a lot of overhead, the small business status is a much better solution. As VIctor said, its a pain in the ass to get a bank account atm, and the small business is so much simpler to run. Frankly if you learn a little Georgian you could even opt to make your own reporting.

Is there a website for this kind of info @ivo? I googled for ages in English and found nothing

just follow georgian news services like http://agenda.ge

Thats at least what I do

Sorry for the late reply, I was on run yesterday a whole day. Guys, thank you for your awesome help, I owe you both a favor. I should have write much earlier here, rather than looking for everything by myself. Good to hear that I can opt for small business status, as this was my preference from the very beginning (I aim for simplicity and lower tax rate). So to sum up: I register as an Individual Entrepreneur with Small Business status. My yearly turnover will exceed 100.000 GEL in B2B transactions, so I'd have to register as a VAT payer, but my invoices in B2B will be without VAT. This is correct, right?

@demmbox - I was asking about something other as a transferwise/paysera, as I saw both BOG and TBC offer only four currencies mentioned by you, but this may limit me. I didn't mention it, but I expect also payments in other currencies, for example CZK or PLN. @ivo where do you operate exactly? I will be in Georgia somewhere in July-August (depends on the situation) for the first time to settle up everything and then probably move permanently in next month or so. Can I contact any of you, here on slack or somehow else in advance, before I arrive? I most likely move to Batumi, less likely Tbilisi or Kutaisi. btw. 150-200 GEL p.m. for accounting is not that much. I saw prices like 500 GEL and more and that seemed too much for my type of activity. Prices both of you mentioned are fair, in my opinion.

@bartek you can use both bank accounts right? use TW to receive CZK and zloty for example. You can contact me on Slack

That's the plan, to use both :slightly_smiling_face: ok, when I will know something more specific I will contact you, thanks once again

@bartek Hey Bartek, I?m based in Tbilisi. BoG and TBC offer more than just those 4 currencies. Actually you can open current accounts in any currency in the world (no kidding, even zimbabwe dollar). However, they charge pretty hefty fees on incoming transfers for those currencies, so wouldn?t advise that. You can contact me here, though I do not check Slack so frequently. Better to email me at Batumi is a nice place, though I couldn?t imagine myself staying there long-term. Very nice this time of the year until late autumn though. You better forget about staying in Kutaisi.

why to forget about Kutaisi? Dangerous, undeveloped or something else? In terms of bigger cities I was only in Batumi (loved it) and Tbilisi (was ok, but I felt better in the first one). Thanks, I noted the email

It?s just Kutaisi has nothing special 1. Tbilisi is best if you are single. More restaurants, coworking, culture. More foreigners 2. Batumi is good for me, because I am a family man. Boulevard is nice to walk with kids :smiley: Also sea, better air quality. It?s still a city of 200k people. so there are not many things to do and it can become boring 3. Kutaisi it?s a city smaller than Batumi and without Batumi?s perks

driving in Tbilisi is crazy. Batumi is more chill. Also personally I like Batumi on winter & spring. On summer it becomes croudy with tourists? On winter the city is yours and you are treated as a local

Unless you are that recluse type of developer who hides yearlong in his mancave, you are going to be bored very quickly in Kutaisi. It has very scenic surroundings and great climate but completely lacks any cultural activities. I can second everything Victor said. Frankly, I?ve never visisted the coast during winter time but heard that the humidity makes it not so comfortable. Worth noting though that Tbilisi is a much diverse city with a lotta facettes while Kutaisi consist to a large part of Turks in Winter and Ukrainian/Russian Tourists in summer. Traffic in Tbilisi is an absolute nightmare.

ok, so Kutaisi is clearly not for me :slightly_smiling_face: Actually I enjoy less crowded places, so maybe Batumi will be better, at least in non-summer time. Maybe I will check both for some time, before I settle for good in any of these.

How safe is Georgia? https://agenda.ge/en/news/2020/1580

TOP 10 in the world. :sweat_smile:

@arkdeeplove it?s safe. Due to Saakashvili reforms lots of ?thieves in law? had to leave the country. Georgians got fame of forming gangs outside of Georgia but inside is safe :smiley: and well going to disputed territories is not recommended (Abkhazia and South Ossetia)

Thank you @demmbox. At some point I will visit Batumi for sure.

Hey @demmbox, @ivo. Actually, I was thinking to move to Georgia as well. I'm in the same situation as @bartek and the information provided are very helpful. I also want to thank both for offering the information to all of us. I have an extra question. I've seen all flights to Tbilisi are starting on July 1. However, from my current location, if I will book a flight, I will arrive there in July 2 in the morning at around 3AM. The main problem would be that I will have 182 days in my current country, 1 day would be in transit, and 182 days would be in Georgia. Would I qualify to receive the tax residency in Georgia, in this scenario? I'm planning to move there with my partner, do we both have to register as Individual Entrepreneur with small business status?

@arkdeeplove You will have to be in the country for 183 days. So short answer is no, you wont qualify. That said, many times the need of a tax certificate is grossly overstated and there are very few reasons why you would need one. Unless your previous country of residency requires a proof, you are a tax resident in Georgia while you reside here.

@arkdeeplove to add something up. there are sometimes more criterias than 183 days. like ?centre of vital interests? or where your spouse / family lives. it depends on your current tax country and personal situation And yes, all that are just dots that you will need to provide IF they are going to open a case and require proofs

Thank you very much @ivo & @demmbox. That's very helpful.

@demmbox, @ivo I have one more question, if you don't mind. According to Deloitte the Income Tax Rate is 20% and Dividends are subject to 5% withholding tax. If the Individual Entrepreneur with a small business status is subject to 1% corporate tax, I will have top pay the income tax of 20% at the personal level, or I will be able to pay myself dividends and get everything at 6%? Thank you very much again! :pray:

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/georgia/individual/taxes-on-personal-income https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/georgia/individual/income-determination in other words, it works as usually in that situation. You pay 1% turnover tax in that case, from your business activity and everything else belongs to you personally then. You mixing up legal body and private/personal body. You are not paying dividends as an IE, because in that kind of activity, you don't have shares, so you can't pay dividends

yes, mixing with the basics there are no dividends for self-employed :smiley: for companies. income tax = corporate tax

actually I may have a question once as we already started this subject. Once I register as an Individual Entrepreneur - how to obtain Small Business status + how long it takes etc.? :slightly_smiling_face:

first you register as a normal self-employed (takes 1-2 days), then apply for small business status. This process I don?t remember clearly but I think it took me 1 month or so to get accepted.

this above, is an old document from 2016 year. https://www.matsne.gov.ge/ka/document/view/1043717?impose=translateEn&publication=162 this is the current one :wink: unfortunately, only in Georgian

@bartek After having registered as IE at the Public Service Hall, you go to the Revenue Services to apply for the Small Business Status

@arkdeeplove As others said, you do not take dividends as IE. The IE is not a separate legal entity.

Thank you very much @ivo, @demmbox, @bartek.

Thanks ivo, I have just found yesterday, when I will have some kind of online account registered in Revenue Services (not sure when I should register account in Revenue Service) I can apply for it. Still, I'm waiting for more information regarding flying to Georgia after 01 July, as I heard that some massive restrictions are coming + obligatory covid-19 test not older than 72h before arrival... but I'm not sure if all what I heard and read is true.

You are welcome Andrew! I'm on the similar situation to you too, so we will see what future brings for us :wink:

We should all gather our forces and savings and buy our own island. :slightly_smiling_face:

What would be a good place to socialize and meet with likeminded people in Tbilisi? I'm particularry interested in meeting self-employed and people running their own businesses. It was not a challenge before, but a huge issue post-covid

I also ditched facebook (to save my sanity), so it's a bit of a challenge to track facebook communities for any worthwhile events.

@skat we can grab a coffee at coffee lab some time next week if you like

Would love to @ivo. Almost anytime next week :)

I am in also

@ivo @skat

has joined #georgia

Hi @karim, sorry, I missed this#. @skat is in Batumi this week but you cna txt me if you like.

Seems like local ATMs block USD withdraws now for non-Georgian bank cards.

I went through all ATMs I could find on rustaveli street and only GEL is available. While my TBC card could easily withdraw USD from any of them.

hehe no idea but it remembered me when I arrived to Georgia 2 years ago with a Spanish credit card.. the card was strange in size and couldn?t be inserted into ATMs here.. only could be inserted in Liberty but with an error. I had to go to BOG and ask them to charge me the amount I want to withdraw =)

Good to know Georgia has now insured deposit to 15,000GEL. Less than USD5,000 but a good start.

Anyone using the virtual IT zone structure in Georgia?

I'm in VZ

What is it like? Would you be able to run an SEO company in the VZ?

@arthur.vandelaak I believe it says "software development" as a requirement. Banking is difficult since they won't allow you business accounts that accept foreign transactions but you could use transferwise business.

Better late than never huh :stuck_out_tongue:

hi guys. do you know if Georgian banks (Bank of Georgia or TBC) are crypto friendly?

I?ve been a client of Bank of Georgia for 2-3 years, like it so far and I am just starting with crypto

BOG is not really crypto friendly.

Anyone in Georgia atm? Are borders open for tourism?

Just found this: https://www.geoconsul.gov.ge/HtmlPage/Html/View?id=2131&lang=Eng

I'm in Georgia and this is where I was taking my info

anyone opened a bank account in Georgia with these guys?

I know they are reputable but I wanna know how long it took since they haven't replied to my email yet (I mean I sent it 12 hours ago, but still)

@seb.malek, I opened an account in Georgia through https://globalbanks.com/gbi_globalbanks_insider/ - they were very responsive and walked me through the entire process and made direct intros to the bank. Price looks the same as these guys. But, big difference is you get 12 months of support from their team and you can open multiple accounts in other countries. I?ve opened in Georgia, Panama, and US so far, all with direct introductions. Highly recommend.

@mescos are you affiliated with them? does the $700 fee include free remote opening in Georgia? and which bank did they open you an account at? TBC or BoG?

@seb.malek no affiliation. I opened remote in Georgia, Panama, and US. And I opened with BoG. I actually got in when the price was much lower so I?ve been making the most of it.

how long did it take for them to open the BoG account?

any minimum deposit?

thanks btw

Yea, no worries. It was a while ago but I think the whole process was about two and half weeks? I deposited 15k but I think the minimum was below that.

ok, ty

If you?re considering it, you might want to just ping them and asking time frame and deposits, they?ll probably be able to give you some direction before you actually join

You definitely don't have any affiliation @mescos? You have mentioned them several times before and are the only member to do so. It's ok if you do, but it should be disclosed.

@burrup.lambert nope. Like I said I got in early and have used them to open a few accounts. I?ve used SovereignMan too but they?re banking stuff is a bit weak, better for residency etc. Also, I?m pretty sure a few other people have talked about them on here in the past? Can?t remember who but there?s a few members at least.

@burrup.lambert have you found any other good options? Always keen to find other resources.

For banks no. I've actually had nothing but trouble with Georgian banks. I just closed my account at Solo Bank, the private arm of BOG. I have another friend who is with TBC and is having issues. His identity document expired and they need a new one, but he can't log into his account because his number changed. No help from customer support, has no choice but to fly their to resolve it in person.

TBC closed my business accounts the moment I received USD from abroad

fuck...that's exactly what I was planning to use it for :joy:

have you received it from a US company (meaning it was closed for no good reason) or was it from some shady country/source or what? @fish

I received payment for honest work done by my Georgian VZ LLC for a legit US client. Bank said I have 10 days to move my funds before the account is getting locked. Being it Georgia I managed to receive one more payment within those 10 days before I withdrawaled it all. AFAIK the account is still active (Georgia :shrug: ) but I will never risk receiving any money there. Instead I'm using TW for the company.

oh I over looked the business account part

weird yeah

I need a personal account to receive 5 figures in USD from http://escrow.com, so it might work

5 figs might trigger a human overwatch but you should be fine

:ok_hand:

thanks

I have a BOG account for 3 years, receiving USD and EUR without a problem :man-shrugging: self-employed, small status, 2 legit clients, IT related

@fish where do you live in Georgia, let?s meet?

@demmbox let's do it. I'm in Vera/Vake

I sit all day at Irakli Abashidze, can join too

A pint or two would work

In Mtskheta now but maybe I'll drop by after

I am in Batumi :expressionless:

I forgot there is more than Tbilisi lol

@kuka I'm down for a drink if you're up for it. There is some expat event I was looking at but I'm also down for a chill drink in Vake

Hey yeah, let?s do it

Later today?

sure

Lets move to DMs

Can someone recommend an accountant in Tbilisi?